I've been thinking a bit about this, so here I am writing about it again. :)
Today the common expectation is for a child to graduate high school and then immediately pack their bags and head off to college. Occasionally you´ll run into those who have chosen a different route to further their education, but they are few and far between. Do we ever stop to question why? For what purpose are we being indoctrinated for four years under someone else´s teaching? Don´t get me wrong, I´m not against college. Sometimes it is required for the field one wishes to pursue. Many times it is done just because that is what is expected. We need to consider both the benefits and the risks.
It costs a large fortune to attend a college. It is a cost that I myself can justify. If what I truly desire is to be a stay-at-home wife and mother, why should I create that much debt to carry into marriage? A degree is nothing more than a very expensive piece of paper. Just about everyone has one these days so it isn´t something that differentiates you from the next guy (or gal). I´m not saying degrees are bad, simply that the traditional route is a very expensive way to get one. Something that I think everyone should at least consider is CollegePlus! or a similar program. Through distance learning, the college expenses are drastically reduced. If at some point I end up pursuing a degree, CollegePlus is how I would earn it.
Now, what about the quiver and arrows analogy? If the kids are being kept at home, how are you making a mark on the world for His kingdom? I think how you answer this question depends on how exactly you view missions. For some, serving our families are the ´front lines´ while for others, it may be serving the Lord in another country. Both can make a phenomenal difference for the Kingdom. I don´t think it is so much where you are serving as how. We can make a difference for the Kingdom no matter where we are. Now for young men, one expects them at some point in their early twenties to take initiative to start their own homes (whether that means marrying or living on their own is and entirely different topic). For young women, I think they can and should take the opportunity to serve at home in their own families until marriage (and if they´re called to singleness that´s another topic for another day). No, that doesn´t mean they are ´stuck´ at home all day, it is simply the springboard they use for ministering to those around them. It doesn´t mean one is limited to service in their own family, but that the family is the starting point.
So there is a few of my broken thoughts on the topic. I know not everyone agrees with me, so I look forward to discussing this further in the comments. :)
You invited comments so I'll post some of my own thoughts. I will do my best to be sensitive to your own position (and as a result sympathies).
ReplyDeleteI come from the other side and so may be able to offer insights from my position.
First of all I do appreciate your look at alternatives to the traditional college education. I believe that to be a very valid and good substitute to state colleges. However, after going to a real Christian college for over a year I would never trade CollegePlus or anything else. My time at Covenant is not about a degree, and I think that's the case for the majority of the students actually. At Covenant College we are a bunch of Christians learning to live together in love. True, college does tend to prolong adolescence, but that's not a given. Covenant is a very expensive school so to go here you really have to want something more than a degree. If all you want is a degree than you are stupid to pay all that money to go to Covenant when you can get a degree through a much cheaper state school, or better yet CollegePlus. I do believe CollegePlus to be better than the average secular university. By doing that one avoids the many dangers and bad influences that come from attending the average state school. However, a person's time at Covenant College is not about passing tests to gain a grade, it's about interacting with classmates and professors who love you and want to see you grow in the Lord. You are cut off from your safe family refuge and thrust into a community where you must establish a reputation from scratch. Will you take advantage of not being known to goof off or even do sinful things? Or will you make for yourself the name of Christian?
I'm simply using Covenant college as an example, I'm sure there are other wonderful places almost as good as Covenant. ; P
Covenant is a place where you don't just pass tests, but you learn how to learn in a Christian way.
Now, all that said Christian Colleges are very expensive and I am very ready to acknowledge that. It's only by God's grace that I got in to Covenant (as I'm sure many other students would concur). So I am sensitive to the cost being a factor to making a college decision. However, we shouldn't forget the aspect of trusting God to provide when we are faithful to Him.
Despite all my praise of a Christian college I also want to say that college is not for everyone. Some students get out of high school and don't have any desire to learn, in those cases college is probably a good idea. One of the main points of college is to teach you how to learn, because real life doesn't involve going to class everyday. However, there are also a number of students who get out of high school and are already teaching themselves and may even know more than the average college student. People who already love and know how to learn by themselves really have little need for a college degree. This is not to say that they shouldn't go to college, in fact they would probably excel there, but they already have learned the most important lesson of college.
Seriously though, degrees are over-rated. I suppose there are a number of high level occupations that require degrees, but there are a whole lot of places that need nothing, and really a smart employer looks at work experience more than/rather than a college degree.
So, in a sense I really do agree with you Jessica, I'm just also in favor of college. College is intended to be—and can be in a Christian context—so much more than a slip of paper talking about a major area of study. A Christian college puts you into a huge family which you live with 24-7 for 4 years and in the process learn how to love people and be loved back.
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Now, if I may also offer a short comment about children at home. I confess I have written a lot lately about children leaving the home and spreading out and how that is actually a good thing, and have not really considered the other side much. However, there are valid reasons for my obsession with that topic. For one I have experienced it first hand and have slowly come to see it as a good thing after at least a year. For another my family has mostly boys which do move out of the home regardless of whether they are married. So, while I have talked a lot about the other aspect I appreciate your comments to the opposite side and can sympathize with you.
ReplyDeleteAs far as girls go, I do appreciate girls who are seriously considering what it looks like for girls to follow God and trying to do so. However, I do want to add a caution. When the culture says that men and women are equal it really means that women are superior to men. However, when conservative Christians say it we usually mean that men are still superior to women. This is displayed by the fact that conservative Christians don't really know what to do with single women. When we define women's roles in relation to her husband and kids we run into great danger. I think conservative Christians need to take another look at feminism and see if they've gone too far. I really don't want to take up the space to discuss that fully here so I'll just leave it at that.
Namarie,
Mellon
Perhaps what it all boils down to is whether you are going to college to further your education, or for the community. If it's simply to further your education, obviously some sort of distance learning is best because it is the least expensive option. Now if it's community, obviously Covenant or a similiar college is what someone should be looking for. There are certainly some good things about college, which you have pointed out. However, I don't think you ought to have to go to college to find a community like that - for at least the most part, that is what our church community should be like. College certainly makes it easier for one to be on their own. Now, I'm not necessarily argueing against you, simply pointing out that college isn't perfect either. ;) One of the main things about college that frustrates me is that everyone is expected to go the moment they graduate highschool. Why is it the norm? It certainly hasn't always been that way. With college expensives rise higher and higher each year, I think there should be some good justification for going to college and being that deep in debt after graduation even before starting families of our own.
ReplyDeleteOn children at home - I could go deeper into this, but shall try to leave this short. I'll be happy to discuss it further. I think there is a danger in elevating either extreme - keeping your children always close, or shooting your arrows as far as possible. It is good when we can spread the gospel in other parts of the country, even the world, but that doesn't make you better than the one who seeks to do so within their own community, even their own home. Both are equally important in the Kingdom, so we should be careful to elevate one over the other. It's not so much the location as the attitude of our hearts.
As for gender equality and single young women, I shall leave that comment for your post on your blog or perhaps another post of my own. ;)
I probably will end up voicing my opinions in a way that ends up being not exactly as I meant it -- but I'll put in my two cents anyway.
ReplyDeleteYou said that you're frustrated with the fact that going to college right out of highschool is the norm. Now, of course we have to be careful that we don't do things simply because they're 'the thing to do'. But if the 'norm' is a good thing, than there's no reason not to.
For a while, I wasn't the least bit interested in college, mostly to be 'different'. But the more I've thought about the more I think it's a good idea to attend college. For me, at least, it's a time (and perhaps the only time) when I'll be with peers and learning how to interact and have relationships with people (peers and otherwise). I'm not going to college to get a degree (as far as myself, that doesn't even enter my head as part of going to college). I am going for the experience, and the learning that you'll only get in a live classroom, in a christian university.
And when else are you going to do that? If your ultimate plan is to be a parent (which of course is a wonderful goal) than when are you going to go to college if not right out of highschool? And of course I respect kids who decide to wait a year or two because they have other things they wish to do before college. My dream/plan right now is to some sort of year long foreign mission work before college. But there is really no other 'good time' to attend college if it's not soon after highschool.
Ok, maybe that was more than two cents, but oh well. : )
Jessica,
ReplyDeleteYou invited discussion at the end of your post so I will reply to your comment if you don't mind. ; )
You said that "it all boils down to whether you are going to college to further your education, or for the community." Actually I'd have to disagree with you there. When I talked about going just to get a degree I didn't mean just to get educated. Getting a degree and an education are not at all synonymous in my mind. Furthering your education is a great term and I believe Covenant College is the best place to do that. Furthering your education is developing yourself as a whole person and it is my personal opinion that Covenant College is the best place to do that. However, I do have a lot of evidence to back that up—like all the successful people who graduated from Covenant, and by successful I don't just mean economically.
As a result I would also quibble with your statement that distance learning is best. I have experienced a semester worth of distance learning as well as been at Covenant for a whole year now, so I think I have a fair amount of justification in my critique of each. I would say that distance learning is far inferior. I certainly learned a fair amount in my online classes, but it was very impersonal learning. Once I got to Covenant I learned that learning is so much more than what you get in the classroom. I know a lot of people say it, but it's true that there's nothing quite like a real life professor—at least a good one. Now, there certainly are professors who teach so poorly that I might as well be learning online but that's not true for the most part at Covenant. That of course becomes another reason why I think a typical state school is not worth anyone's money.
Just because something's cheaper doesn't mean that it's better. In fact, most things that are less expensive are of inferior quality.
Cost is certainly an issue, but somethings are worth going into debt for. Houses are a great example of something everyone goes into debt for, but I don't see a lot of people questioning that. I'm pretty sure almost every college student that went into debt eventually found a way out of it eventually.
Before I went to Covenant I had almost the same ideas about college that you had, so don't take this as some superior speaking in a condescending tone. This is simple discussion in love. ; )
…so keep discussing!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Isaiah and Londa. As my ideas are still developing, I'm enjoying being to discuss this topic. One resource I found interesting is Voddie Baucham's talk, Harvard or Heaven (http://www.collegeplus.org/media/webinars).
ReplyDeleteSo, under what circumstances would you say someone should go to college as opposed to alternate route (whether that be apprenticeship, distance learning, etc.)? Certainly there are degrees and situations where you need to go to college, but I don't think I could encourage going to college just because of the community that is there. You have to be very trusting when you enter into college and place yourself under their authority and teaching for four years. Whether you like it or not, after four years they will have influenced you, perhaps for good perhaps for ill.It sounds like Covenant is doing a good job, but from what I've heard, they are one of the very few colleges that hold to biblical teachings.
The frustration I have is the mindset that you have to go to college. If my gifts or calling is such that I don't need to go to college, why should I spend a very large sum of money and four years of my time there? Four years is a long time and thousands of dollars a steep cost to spend on something that I won't end up using. Even if there is a great community there, I'm not sure I can justify that. For me, my post-highschool choice was either college or ministry. It isn't always a distinctive choice for everyone, but for me it was and when I look back at what I have been able to accomplish with God's help for the past four years since I graduated, I wouldn't change it for anything.
Now, I don't believe distance learning is the only way to go. Yes, in many ways it is inferior to classroom learning. But I think that distance learning, apprenticeships, and the like should be viable choices for life after high school and should not be looked down upon as inferior options.
It's in my nature to question everything. I don't want to accept or do something just because that's the way it has always been done, or because it's what everyone else is doing. So I'm questioning college and why it is expected to be our only option after highschool. I like to know why, which can be frustrating when there aren't any anwers, but I guess it makes for some good blog posts and discussions. ;)
I listened to the talk by Voddie Baucham. He does have some good stuff to say but for the most part I feel as though he is overgeneralizing. He is talking statistics and stuff mostly. I appreciate the fact that he's questioning cultural norms, but I think the reasons he gave for his kids to go to CollegePlus! are mostly the same reasons I would recommend Covenant.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that you have to be very trusting of the college because it will affect you. I agree 100% and believe that is fantastic at Covenant College. Even the worst students will be affected more or less for the better.
I think Covenant College is for students who aren't sure about themselves, need a degree for their intended occupation, or simply don't have an immediate career or family in view. I see Covenant College as a good stepping stone into adulthood that allows young men and women to learn a lot about themselves, from themselves, professors, and fellow students.
I have a cousin who got married instead of going to college, that's a great example of someone who doesn't need to go to college. I know someone else who had a great job as a Chick-fil-a manager barely out of high school and he got married at 19 or 20. That's another example of someone who shouldn't go to college. I appreciate things like CollegePlus! but I see it more as a resource for those who need a degree but don't have the time to spend 4 years at Covenant College. A hypothetical example of someone who goes to the mission field or some other ministry right out of high school is someone else I'd say is doing the right thing. Certainly not having the money is a legitimate reason for not going to Covenant College. However, I think leaving the home to live life away from the family can be a very good growing experience for young adults before they have to buy/rent their own home. Living away from home has certainly taught me a lot about myself and my family and has given me new appreciation among other things for them.
As a little follow up regarding something else…
ReplyDeleteI have great concerns regarding some of Voddie Baucham's ideas about motherhood. Motherhood is all good and great and not valued enough in our culture, but we also need to remember that is never all a woman does in her life (unless she dies before her children are grown). Even while she is parenting she is often involved in so many other things and so I don't think motherhood is ever an exclusive calling. I fear he may be leading some astray to the highest and only calling of women. It may be a primary calling, but many Christian women stay single for a long time and if they are just waiting for someone to start a family with they may lose precious and unique opportunities. I think it wisest for a woman to plan for some sort of career that she can support herself in and/or ministry to do and if a man interrupts that, great. However, waiting on something you have no control over and you don't know will happen can cause many great opportunities to be lost. I'm not saying single women need to move out of the home right when they are 19 or 20 but I don't think girls must, or in some cases should, stay under their father's roof until marriage.
In regard to Isaiah's comment on motherhood...
ReplyDeleteFor me, being a mom is my ultimate and biggest dream. That's what I've wanted to be for as long as I can remember, and I still want to. But I think women should never have that exclusively as they're plan for what they'll do in life. Obviously, God does not have planned for every woman to get married -- and since that is the case I think women/girls should be open to a different calling if that is God's will, and not plan exclusively for motherhood. Just some things I've been thinking about... and I am guessing this is not a completely opposite view from Jessica's.
And I admire you, Jessica, for not 'going with the flow' of our culture. I guess for me, though I like to do the same thing, I tend to try to go against 'the flow' of the 'ultra-conservatives'. : ) It's the wild, contrary side coming out in me. haha... seriously, though. I think it's always a good thing to not do things just because they're 'the thing'. But we also shouldn't be against something just because they're 'the thing'.
Thanks, Eilonwy, I probably sounded really harsh and condemning. Sorry about that Jessica. I don't mean to be. Try to take them with some salt of love and know their just the negative side, not the huge positive side. Eilonwy said what I should have said.
ReplyDeleteLonda - thank you for your kind, sweet words that I'm sure I don't deserve! Sounds like we are both big contrarians. ;)
ReplyDeleteIsaiah - I didn't take it that way at all. There's a negative side to just about every stance or doctrine, thought it's easy to forget sometimes when we're trying to defend our side. Thanks for the reminder.
Regarding Voddie Baucham, I haven't read much of his works, and those I have were on marriage/courtship. I have, however, read his daughter's blog. From what I've read, I highly doubt she is simply waiting around for marriage, or views that as the only calling for women.
In regards to the motherhood topic (though I imagine this ties in with both), it may come as a shock that I would probably end up agreeing. ; ) Being a mother is a high calling, but it is not the only thing women are to do. I think it is easy to see stay-at-home daughters as pining away, waiting for their prince arrive so that their real life can begin. For some misguided young women, perhaps that is true. However, what I have witnessed in the world of stay-at-home daughters is far from that. These daughters have a heart to serve Christ wherever they are. Simply because one is living under their father's roof and forgoing the traditional college route, doesn't mean marriage is the only thing they are preparing or are prepared for. They are are seeking to make an impact in the world, using the home as a springboard. No, not every girl will get married (though the statistics tell us that a majority will). Does that mean that we should all have two plans for life - one with marriage and one without? Nope. A man shouldn't be interrupting a woman's work, but instead should be working toward a mutual goal. It's what marriage is about, the opportunity to have a co-laborer in the work of the Kingdom. It should be that they will be able to accomplish their goals better if they are spending their lives as husband and wife, than they could if each remained single. My future is not banked on getting married. I don't think marriage is the starting point for life. My life is now, I am serving Christ and doing His kingdom now. Maybe someday my Father will send me a fellow labourer, maybe not. It's not something I am panicking about. Whatever situation He places me in - single or married - I know that His grace is and will be sufficient for me. The work I wish to accomplish for the Kingdom doesn't require a degree. My interests need only certification. For others, their life work may require a degree or perhaps they will need those four years at college for other reasons. It is not wrong for women to desire to be a wife and mother, that is what we were created to be. It is wrong when that becomes an idol and our only desire in life. Yes, I long to be able to have a husband to serve and children to raise for the Kingdom, but even more than that I want to serve my God and my King. Whatever situation He places me in, I want to be all there, serving Him with every fiber of my being.
Good to hear! The only reason I spoke of marriage "interrupting" a woman's life is that women are more or less called to support a man in his calling rather than the other way around. Yes, they should be mutually supporting each other to some extent but if there is a conflict it is the woman who is under authority and so ultimately must submit. Perhaps two people shouldn't get married unless their goals are mutual, but I don't think that's absolutely necessary. For instance a woman may be pursuing a career in journalism, but when she gets married and has children being a journalist would more than likely be rather difficult to maintain. In that respect her career would be interrupted and redirected to whatever life her husband wants to live.
ReplyDeleteI imagine you agree with this, but I'm clarifying that nonetheless. ; )
Yep - everything you said. ;) I guess interrupting doesn't sound like quite the right word to me, but I guess it works.
ReplyDelete